Las Vegas sportsbook jobs?

[Eibon]

Hi, I've decided to move to Vegas this summer. It looks like I can find a decent 2 br apartment for around $600 - am I correct in thinking this?

I'd like to get a job in a sportsbook as a clerk - I know the pay isn't great, but what IS the average pay? I make money online with side projects so pay is not a great issue.

Thanks,

JK

 

[Dweeb]

Eibon,

The pay is probably a lot less than you think it is. The term in Las Vegas is "writer" -- not "clerk." If you ask about a job as a clerk in the R & S book, everyone will know that you haven't a clue how to do the job. In the old days in Las Vegas (prior to about 1986), tickets were all hand written, hence the terms "Race and Sports Writer," "Sports Writer," or "Race Writer." These days, Nevada law requires that R & S books be computerized. Nothing is hand written these days, everything goes in the computer. You don't need to be especially computer literate, if you can operate a Game Boy, you can learn to run all the machines in a Nevada R & S book.

The pay varies. There are some places that pay as low as minimum wage. In the parlance of Las Vegas, they are called "break in joints." These are places you start in -- if you have no experience. The fancy places on the strip might pay $10 an hour for writers. So obviously in a place like Caesars, guys in the pit are making a multiple of what the guys in the sports book are taking home. Yet, the level of knowledge required is higher in the sports book. There is a lot less stress in the R & S book though -- as compared to being a boxman on a craps table or similar. Be aware, the noise level in most R & S books is off-the-scale. This is nothing to me, with all the time I have spent in LV as a customer, but if you're coming from some cubby hole in a plush office -- then 35 tv's going simultaneously and 4 people yelling at you -- while you're trying to count money -- can take a bit of getting used to.

The books on the strip are not going to hire you unless you have prior experience. They don't like to train someone from scratch. Experience betting sports is nice, but doesn't land you that first job on the strip, because working behind the counter is a world away from being a customer. Two good places for someone to get a job if he has no experience are the Poker Palace in North Las Vegas (they hire anyone with a good attitude who is willing to work, when they have an opening) and the casinos in Primm. Both will train someone with no experience. Bill Rossi is the R & S manager at Poker Palace. Glynis Mickelian is the R & S manager for all the Primm casinos (look extreme south of Las Vegas on your map).

I was in talking to one of the supers at the New Frontier (which is the same as the old Frontier) the other day. He told me that he had an opening and the pay (I think) was $8.00 a hour. This is a mid-level place on the strip, but the R & S manager, Tony Nevill isn't going to hire someone with no experience.

You can probably find a 2 bedroom apartment for around $600. It depends upon what type of neighborhood. If you are willing to slum it, you can probably get lower. In a fancy smancy place, think $800. People ask me similar questions all the time, but there is no one easy answer. I pay a lot less. But then, none of my neighbors speak any English and I would call this part of town a ghetto. It works for me, might not for you. I know this town extremely well, so I can pick out the places that outsiders think are dangerous (hence, they don't fetch the higher rents) but are just as safe as the fancy neighborhoods. The difference is not going to be obvious to you for a few years.

Once you have 6 months of R & S work experience, you can probably start moving up to better R & S Books that pay more money. But with that added pay comes more cash handling. You make a mistake when each bet is $11,000 to win $10,000 and you are not going to have a good day.

The best time of year to get a first time job in a R & S book is August -- because books are ramping up -- in preparation for their big season, the football season. A lot of R & S personnel switch employers every August. ---- June and July are quiet, but you may be able to get a job at Primm (see above) because they have very high turnover.

Hope this helps.
Dweeb

Obviously, I work in a book, but rather not say which one. You can read "SuperBookie" by Art Mantaris in your local library for background, although some of the info there is outdated.

[This message was edited by Dweeb on December 28, 2003 at 05:32 AM.]

 

[WildBill]

Great post by Dweeb, but he left out the obvious disclaimer. Unless you are unemployed and can't get a job at home, forget coming to Vegas to do this. I have heard every excuse in the book for doing it and almost every one of them is a sorry excuse indeed. Bottom line is most people want to do it so they can be near the betting action, why else would you get yourself involved? So simply put, don't try it. R&S jobs aren't the worst in town, but they certainly aren't worth the effort people make to get them. I mean you could do as well financially just aspiring to be a McDonalds worker so why the interest in working in this field?

 

[Eibon]

Thanks for the detailed response Dweeb!

WildBill, I plan on moving there to be close to the betting action (I hit near 60% on NFL the past 3 years - now I need to be in a place where I can actually make serious gains from this).

My home business will make me a living no matter where I live - Nevada is best because no state income tax and it's just one state away from where I live now.

Any "regular" job would just be to obtain extra money to gamble with - and working in a sportsbook would be conducive to this

If I posted some addresses of apartments in Vegas, could you guys tell me if they are in good areas of town or not?

Thanks,

E

 

[WildBill]

If you still wish ok I am sure either of us can fill you in on what areas. One thing about Vegas is that you really have to drive through the apartments themselves, there is a world of difference between even neighboring places. The rule of thumb I would give you is pay a little extra. I know you want to keep costs down, but you wouldn't believe the difference an extra 50 bucks makes. A lot of apartments are bunched together and the place that is 750 a month will be really nice with good neighbors and the place down the street that is 650 will have nasty neighbors and you won't like it, people that are cheap or landlords that are needing renters are usually people you don't want to deal with. Best thing to do is get in the car and drive around the parking lot at 7pm or later and see what is parked in the spots, when I was renting in Vegas that was my scientific study and it works there better than you would think.

I say what I do about the books because you won't pick up vibe, you won't make decent money at it and you will just be disappointed with your job if you do it. You won't make "serious gains" just because you are in Vegas, your hometown now will do just fine as long as the DA isn't busting down your door. If you do come you will become like most of bettors in this town, you will do all your betting offshore.

Granted the lack of income tax is nice, but don't let that be your only reason for being here. I mean the number of people I hear that from is amazing, once again how cheap can you be? Save money where you can, but don't change your life for a few percent in income tax. If you are in CA or NY I can understand the need for tax cuts, but most states are around 3% tax, that isn't enough reason to move somewhere you aren't familiar with and somewhere that tends to build a lot of bad habits in people, not to mention there are many states without an income tax. If you truly want to be focused on sports and your business go somewhere with less distractions. Plenty of nice quiet places up in Washington or in Texas, both of which won't tax your income. I just warn you about your one-track mind and a seeming lack of focus on your part. People that come here to make it, don't come here to take low-paying jobs that often require you to work in a ghetto hotel or drive 40 miles to Primm. That just strikes me as really going about it the wrong way, but if you are determined then go ahead, you won't be the only person getting in town that day looking to try that.

 

[mvbski]

Bill why so negative my god why dont you just tell him to stay away.Dont let him scare you away I came there with pretty much the same idea and after some hard work I moved up the ladder and became a sportsbook manager and did well for myself.You will never know until you give it a try and see if you like it and if you dont you can always move back.Working in a book is not a bad job decent pay for not doing to much,free insurance,free lunch you dont really bust your butt I can think of alot worst jobs to break into.If you need any advice just let me know I lived there for 20 years and I will be glad to help you in anyway I can.And I wont tell you to stay away

 

[Eibon]

Well those are some interesting responses

Another reason I am moving is the nightlife - I am only 27, and the constant turnover of tourist women is something I think I can get used to. I've lived in my present area for about 3 years now and am restless - time for a change.

Here is a list of apartments in the strip area... anyone familiar with any of these?

Apartment Complex Name
Major Cross Streets

Cambridge Towers Flamingo Rd & Cambridge
Central Park West Sands Avenue & Koval Lane
Desert Club East Flamingo Road & Koval Lane
Embassy West Sahara Avenue & Teddy Drive
The Falls East Flamingo Road & Paradise Road
Grand Plaza Harmon Avenue & Koval Lane
Mark I East Desert Inn Road & Paradise Road
The Meridian East Flamingo Road & Koval Lane
Oasis Place East Desert Inn Road & Paradise Road
Sunrise Village Sands Avenue & Koval Lane
Wyandotte West Sahara Avenue & Teddy Drive

Thanks!

 

[WildBill]

Don't live near the Strip, those places you listed are in terrible areas. The area just to the East of the Strip is one of the worst areas in town, the area near the Sahara and Stratosphere is even worse. If you want safe and nice you are going to have to move at least 5 miles from the Strip.

I am negative because I think we all should be to people that want to move here, I think we all owe it to them. Why allow people to have a view of things that isn't quite what it really is? I mean moving to Vegas is fine, but I just sense there are some misperceptions going on here. Working in a book is a job choice that won't make you any better at your own gambling and working in a book isn't about knowing sports. All casino jobs/careers are simply about serving customers well while pleasing bosses egos. People tell me all the time they want to get a sports book job for all the reasons this person has said and I tell them all exactly what I have said here.

 

[Eibon]

Hmm... could you tell me what areas -are- good? This way I have some clue when I go down for a weekend to hunt for an apartment and am not wasting my time with places in bad areas.

Thanks,

E

 

[Eibon]

Actually, let me say this, perhaps it would save us all lots of time.

Is there such a thing as an apartment that:

- has 2 bedrooms
- is QUIET
- rent is $600/mo. or less
- in a relatively safe area

???

Thanks,

E

 

[mvbski]

sorry couldnt get back sooner,you want to stay to the west of the strip,up around the gold coast they have some nice apartments and it's a good area.This time of year it will be hard to get a job it slows down as football winds down,but one option you have and I know Bill will bash me for it is a company call'd Leroys,they have books all over the city they aren't thought of much but it is a great place to learn the buisness,it is like a break in house for new dealers.they pay bad,horrible conditions but you will learn the ropes,a big strike is that you dont have experience and the good books want experience when they hire someone.if there is anything else I can help you with let me know good luck to you

 

[mvbski]

also most of the places you listed are east of the strip STAY AWAY they are near the Hilton wich is the worst part of the city if I remember i think the zip code around there is 89110

 

[Dweeb]

Eibon,

Maybe this article will help:

http://lasvegas.about.com/cs/relocation/a/Neighborhoods.htm

and see the related articles that are referenced there.


I don't think that apartment hunting is a quick and easy chore in Las Vegas. At least, it wasn't for me -- until I lived here about ten years. And even then, notice what Wild Bill said above, quoting "Best thing to do is get in the car and drive around the parking lot at 7pm or later and see what is parked in the spots, when I was renting in Vegas that was my scientific study and it works there better than you would think."

I would agree. I would go further. Before I moved into my present place (and also all the other places I have lived in Las Vegas), which is definitely in the ghetto, I walked all over the neighborhood. Then I walked around the place one evening, well into 3 or 4 a.m. -- detecting what sort of people really live on this block. And I've lived around here a long time, but the point is -- you think you know a neighborhood -- but travel a couple of blocks and the neighborhood changes drastically.

If I had to do it from scratch right now, I would probably stay in one of the extended stay places for a while. There are places that rent by the week all over the place. You don't lock yourself into a long-term lease, but the cost is much less than a regular hotel.

Just put the following into http://www.google.com to get a million listings:

+"las vegas" +"extended stay" +motel

Hearthside
Hilton Grand Vacations
Budget Suites
Hawthorne Suites
Extended Stay America

Just a few examples of the types of places that will rent by the week.

Hope this helps.
Dweeb

 

[Dweeb]

Eibon,

You asked about these places:

Apartment Complex Name
Major Cross Streets

Cambridge Towers Flamingo Rd & Cambridge
Central Park West Sands Avenue & Koval Lane
Desert Club East Flamingo Road & Koval Lane
Embassy West Sahara Avenue & Teddy Drive
The Falls East Flamingo Road & Paradise Road
Grand Plaza Harmon Avenue & Koval Lane
Mark I East Desert Inn Road & Paradise Road
The Meridian East Flamingo Road & Koval Lane
Oasis Place East Desert Inn Road & Paradise Road
Sunrise Village Sands Avenue & Koval Lane
Wyandotte West Sahara Avenue & Teddy Drive


I don't know if you realized this => all except Wyandotte West and Embassy West -- are all in the same area. This area, in general, is South of Desert Inn, North of Flamingo, East of Paradise, West of Maryland. This is the most densly packed square mile (approximately) in the State of Nevada. This area is almost entirely apartment buildings. Gang activity is extremely high in this area. Cambridge Towers is gated, which is a real plus. I don't think the others are gated or fenced. The result, lots of drug selling activity, lots of unexplained shootings.

I recall reading an article about this area in the local paper, but I can't find it right now. This article was very negative about this section of the city, too crowded, too many youths running loose, too much drug selling on the streets, too much activity between rival gangs, etc. The last time I was looking, I did evaluate this area -- and I passed. I like cheap, but this area was too dangerous even for me. But maybe there is a gem or two in there -- you are going to need to visit each place and get a feel for the area. And then come back late at night and get more vibes.

I hope this helps.
Dweeb

[This message was edited by Dweeb on January 01, 2004 at 06:00 AM.]

 

[Dweeb]

Eibon,

I want to tell you a story and I hope you will get my meaning. I thought I knew everything about this city. But, I was mistaken. I was working as a cab driver in the middle 90's. I picked up this young black guy downtown late one evening. He gave me an address on the West Side.

The West Side is an area loosely bounded by Interstate 15 on the east, Rancho on the west, Bonanza on the South -- approximately. A dangerous neighborhood -- but I've walked around there -- I thought I knew it pretty well.

No question about it, whether it's legal or not to refuse, most of my associates would have refused the ride. They are frightened to go up there. I sized the guy up as pretty ok. I took him to this huge public housing complex. There were like 5,000 black people out in the parking lot, doing all sorts of things, and this was after midnight.

To say the least, I was surprised, this place was quiet during the day. I asked him "what are they doing? Is something special going on tonight?" He told me "No, this happens 365 days a year. They come out after dark and meet and greet. They play basketball, they play tunes. They date. etc."

Eibon: Do you get what I am saying? I know this town pretty well. This pubic housing project I was talking about changed character after the sun went down. Seeing it only during the day told the casual observer nothing about what it might be like if one lived there.

Hope that helps.
Dweeb

 

[Dweeb]

Wild Bill wrote above:

"Great post by Dweeb, but he left out the obvious disclaimer. Unless you are unemployed and can't get a job at home, forget coming to Vegas to do this. I have heard every excuse in the book for doing it and almost every one of them is a sorry excuse indeed. Bottom line is most people want to do it so they can be near the betting action, why else would you get yourself involved? So simply put, don't try it. R&S jobs aren't the worst in town, but they certainly aren't worth the effort people make to get them. I mean you could do as well financially just aspiring to be a McDonalds worker so why the interest in working in this field?"

I would agree.

I would add this: Many of the people that I have worked with in sports books around LV -- have a problem with gambling. I mean, they are not winning, they are simply there for the action. They never seem to have any money. Many of them put their entire paycheck back into the casino, including the slot machines.

On the other hand, I have picked up a lot -- from my various sports book jobs -- which helps me in my personal wagering.

I guess you need to evaluate your own personality. Are you going to allow the constant action which surrounds you to affect you? Do you have a sports wagering game plan that you can execute -- ignoring the bs that surrounds you in casinos.

About 99% of the people you encounter in the sports books are not winners. And time spent with them is wasted.

Just something to think about.
Dweeb

 

[Dweeb]

Mvbski wrote above:


"sorry couldnt get back sooner,you want to stay to the west of the strip,up around the gold coast they have some nice apartments and it's a good area.This time of year it will be hard to get a job it slows down as football winds down,but one option you have and I know Bill will bash me for it is a company call'd Leroys,they have books all over the city they aren't thought of much but it is a great place to learn the buisness,it is like a break in house for new dealers.they pay bad,horrible conditions but you will learn the ropes,a big strike is that you dont have experience and the good books want experience when they hire someone."




I don't know if I would go to work for Leroy's. Maybe, if I couldn't find anything else. Leroy's starts you at $6 an hour.

If you're interested, see Dave at their office at Sunset & Grier to apply.

Here's their web site:
http://www.americanwagering.com/main.html

The problems with Leroy's are:

(a) Lots of their locations have just one guy working. Not easy to learn if they stick you by yourself. Much easier to learn if you work with several experienced associates.

(b) Their employees have told me, when you first start there, they assign you here, then they assign you there, and it takes a while before you have a permanent place to work. They have maybe 35 locations in the state, so there are a lot of places they can stick you -- which may not be ideal.

Dweeb

[This message was edited by Dweeb on January 01, 2004 at 06:53 AM.]

 

[Dweeb]

Wild Bill wrote:

"People that come here to make it, don't come here to take low-paying jobs that often require you to work in a ghetto hotel or drive 40 miles to Primm. That just strikes me as really going about it the wrong way, but if you are determined then go ahead, you won't be the only person getting in town that day looking to try that."

Eibon: Just be aware that there are thousands of new people moving in here every month. The sports books (especially the break in joints) don't need to pay too much because there are always new people willing to do those jobs.

But I don't mind giving you some advice by e-mail -- after this thread is dead -- and I have lost track of these postings months from now.

Drop me an e-mail at this temporary e-mail address now -- and I will give you my real e-mail address -- so you can get a hold of me then:

Amazon Nixon 72 @ Hot Pop . Com
(take out the spaces)

Hope this helps.
Dweeb

 

[Dweeb]

MVBSKI wrote above:

"until you give it a try and see if you like it and if you dont you can always move back.Working in a book is not a bad job decent pay for not doing to much,free insurance,free lunch you dont really bust your butt I can think of alot worst jobs to break into."


I agree.

The only reason that I haven't got around to quitting this job is because it's just too easy -- what I really do is bet sports. Everyone that knows me - knows that. This is one place where you don't have to pretend to be something you're not, the only thing you can't do is bet in your own shop (you need to go across the street to do your betting). And your new job in the sports book will only be difficult at first -- I could do it in my sleep(now that I have done this for a few years) . I have tons of friends that come in to bet with my book. I always know what's going on around town -- before it appears in the paper.

Example: Yesterday, story in local paper "Gaming Today" about sale ofthe LV Hilton. I knew about this impending sale 2 weeks ago.

I get free meals. I Know almost every employee in my complex, on a very friendly basis. The atmosphere is noisy as hell but comfortable. I have worked with my associates for so long, we do everything almost automatically without a lot of discussion. I cannot recall the last time I had a harsh word with anyone -- and I don't think you can say that about every job everywhere.

So, all in all, not a bad job -- but you're not going to get rich doing it. And yes, if you are selective, you can pick up info that will help your personal sports betting. Simply pick and choose from what comes your way.

I hope this helps.
Dweeb

 

[Dweeb]

Wild Bill wrote above:

"The area just to the East of the Strip is one of the worst areas in town, the area near the Sahara and Stratosphere is even worse. "


This is true, that is, I know exactly what he means -- but Eibon, you won't until you have lived here a while.

That is a perfect section of town to illustrate a point that I am trying to make.

Go to the Stratosphere, go west, behind the tower, a really bad area. One of the worst areas in town. I've actually known people who got killed in that area.

Go to the Stratosphere, go East, go north of Sahara, East of the Strip. A really nice area. There are some apartments and duplexes there. Mostly single family housing.

Most people don't even know this area exists. I walk through there all the time. At one point, as you walk through this area, if you look west, you can see Talk of the Town strip club (nude dancing and such). Even better, on the west side of the fence are a bunch of 2 hour motels for guys who just want to make it short-time with a street walker. To the east side of the fence are nice single family houses that date from about WWII. I mean, these two areas are within spitting distance from each other, but if someone told you that the area around the Stratosphere tower was a bad area, you might avoid this area entirely (and never discover what I've written here).

I can't tell you what is comfortable for you. I can only recommend that you drive through and walk through an area that you're considering -- and evaluate the landlord. Absentee landlords are a huge problem in this town. Buildings with no on-site management are frequently riddled with all sorts of drug and noise problems.

I hope this helps.
Dweeb